Talk:Michael Jackson

Main image change

File:Michael Jackson Dangerous World Tour 1993 (cropped).jpg

I changed the main image of Michael Jackson to File:Michael Jackson Dangerous World Tour 1993.jpg. This photo is way better then the previous photo, which is low-quality, grainy and black and white. This photo is high-quality and color, along with showing Jackson during his most popular tour. Wcamp9 (talk) 18:38, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Seek consensus first. I have reverted this change. GSK (talk • edits) 19:18, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Well then should we change it Wcamp9 (talk) 19:12, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Your right in my honest opinion! 2600:1002:B1AE:67AE:5D14:770D:7A40:5611 (talk) 00:18, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

We should update the main image

The main image is a grainy, black and white (which I believe makes an image worse when there is color alternatives), and overall low quality. The problem is many images of Jackson on Wikimedia Commons are not really high quality. Any actually high quality ones (including two images below), are being nominated due to copyrighted issues. Here are two examples:

• File:Michael Jackson Dangerous World Tour 1993.jpg
• 

So here are the highest quality images I could find, from highest to lowest quality. Please know that I believe that color is better, but other factors like quality (including amount of grain, quality of image scan, and image size) also apply

• 
  1
• 
  2 (best of other Alan Light photos of Jackson)
• 
  3
• 
  4
• 
  5
• 
  6
• 
  7
• 
  8
• 
  9
• 
  10

If we are to choose another image, which I strongly believe should be the case since 1-9 are better than 10 (the current main image), which should we do? Wcamp9 (talk) 20:42, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

You're misusing the words "objective" and "objectively" here when whether certain pictures are better than others is an inherently subjective matter, so please don't treat your personal opinions as facts. Regardless, my preference of these would be image#7 for giving a clear front view of his face and isn't black-and-white like some of the other listings. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 22:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

I believe that 2 should be used because of how high quality it is compared to other images Wcamp9 (talk) 22:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

4 has been used in the past and is my choice.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:09, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

7 is my pick per the SNUGGUMS arguments. I think it is more recent and more recognisable than image #4 TheWikiholic (talk) 14:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok Wcamp9 (talk) 20:09, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I oppose #7; it doesn't have a clear view of his face due to his sunglasses. #3, #4, and #8 are disqualified for the same reason. #5, #6, and #9 have strange expressions. #10 is good, but not ideal because of a poor view of his face. #1 has good potential if cropped, and #2 is probably the best overall despite his atypical outfit. My favorite of all is File:Michael Jackson 1983.jpg, mentioned above, if it survives copyright challenges. — Goszei (talk) 15:40, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I support #7, and I agree with @SNUGGUMS's statement. Although I don't think it is imperatively necessary to change the current image; but if it were to be done, I think #7 is the only suitable one, and it is a good option for the future considering, among other reasons, that it is in color.

Apart from that, I am going to give my opinion on why I think some of the others are not valid at all. The optimal thing to do in a case like Jackson's, considering that he is one of the most public people the world knew and that it is easy for anyone to recognize him, is to choose a picture that represents what he is known for (i.e. music artist); that's why it is not appropriate to use as the main picture something that is part of his non-artistic life, like the mugshot or #2 (where he is not exercising as an entertainer, and he is not even wearing clothes that represent his artistic persona, just as if it were a picture at home in his pyjamas. It's a picture with close friends where he's wearing a Hilton Hotels cap...). I consider picture #6 to be of very low quality taking into account the other options and I don't find #3 and #8 to be good choices, because they show Jackson in his last years of life, and it is always preferable (as has been done in other cases, such as Queen Elizabeth II) to choose a picture from the "in-between" part of the subject's life. #1, #4, #5, #5, #7 and #10 are valid and appropriate pictures to be used as the main picture in this article, but I consider #7 and #10 (the one currently used) to be the best choices considering that they are better representing Jackson at an in-between time in his life. Salvabl (talk) 02:12, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I disagree, number 10 is the lowest qauality picture of Jackson, and each of the reasons you give make sense, but a side profile of Jackson that is low quality does not make for a better representation of the subject in most cases. I thought we should have done 2, but 4 and 7 are fine too, with all in high quality color Wcamp9 (talk) 18:27, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

How would i go about acquiring the right to use a image of him for this page? Who do i contact? Never17 (talk) 00:58, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

The most famous photo we have is the one set during the Dangerous world tour in his Jam outfit, however there's apparently issues with that one. Of the remaining options, his estate currently uses a image of MJ from the Bad world tour as his profile picture across their social media platforms but the one we got is in black in white and not very high quality. The only other option i think would be suitable is #7 as it's a photo of him receiving the artist of the decade award at the white house in high quality. This was set between the Bad and Dangerous era's of his career when he was at his arguable peak and is fitting for his biographical page. Never17 (talk) 03:52, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion, the press photo from 1983 (Michael Jackson 1983.jpg) should be used, it's well-lit, copyright free and is arguably of the highest quality of all of the images there.PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 00:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

That will work Never17 (talk) 01:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Never17 Please don't change the photo without consensus. Alyo (chat·edits) 01:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I didn't change anything, i just agreed with what the other guy said Never17 (talk) 03:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I have no idea how to do it, but can someone start an RfC or something that will have a more significant way to change it Wcamp9 (talk) 21:04, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I would love to find someway to acquire copyright rights for some high quality images to use for this page, i don't know how to do that though. Maybe a admin here would know Never17 (talk) 21:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

You guys may try to retrieve a press kit photo of Michael, which are public domain. Must meet these reqs: 1. Between 1978 and March 1, 1989. There are a lot of promotional photos during this era for him. Example https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/86109934_disney-michael-jackson-captain-eo-publicity-folder 2. Check that they have no copyright notice and not registered in U.S. Copyright office. 3. Has imprint of the company releasing said press kit on photo itself or from source. Raolae (talk) 22:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion Never17 (talk) 00:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Cause of Death

Since a criminal trial was held and the judge came to a decision that Jackson's death wasn't a accident but a result of criminal homicide (murder), should we add a note or something to let people know this wasn't a accidental overdose but a murder? We also have lots of reports stating Jackson was mostly healthy at the time of his death which lead to the decision.

This was “a criminal homicide case” rather than a malpractice case, the judge said.

Michael Jackson's death officially ruled a homicide - The Guardian

Michael Jackson was healthy at the time of death, rules Autospy Report

Never17 (talk) 18:43, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Conrad Murray was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. This isn't a cause of death, which is correctly stated in the infobox here as acute propofol intoxication. Over at Death of Michael Jackson, the infobox gives the cause of death as "Accidental homicide by acute propofol intoxication". This is perhaps more accurate and could be added to the infobox. Jackson was not murdered, because Murray's actions were considered to be negligent or reckless rather than a deliberate act.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 20:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Got it, i agree Never17 (talk) 20:30, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

A homicide but not a murder. Any illegal causing of human death is a homicide, which is then divided into categories. All murders are homicides, but not all homicides are murders. This was legally a homicide but was not a murder. 2600:1011:B023:AC6E:19E9:4C7A:2DF4:1A4C (talk) 02:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Wrong link to "robot" in the intro

Should be linked to Robot (dance); instead it's linked to the page for actual robots. 2601:188:C801:4FF0:C0E2:D238:FB34:848C (talk) 02:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done thank you for pointing out that error! SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Middle name

I have seen in various sources that his legal middle name was "Joe" rather than "Joseph" (and the Michael-is-alive people point to "Joseph" on the death certificate as evidence he did not really die). But does anyone have a RS for his actual middle name, one way or the other? 2600:1011:B023:AC6E:19E9:4C7A:2DF4:1A4C (talk) 02:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Child molestation allegations.

Leaving Never Land, testimony from his victims 2603:7000:BEF0:2B60:D82C:3BE3:EE9D:F1C5 (talk) 07:25, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Jackson's allegations have their own page, furthermore the "accusers" were people who had previously defended him under oath in a court of law or to law enforcement and various contradictions were exposed. They are largely discredited, the only case that is a point of contention is the 1993 accusation due to the nature of the settlement. That in fact is mentioned in depth here Never17 (talk) 01:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

It’s already covered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson#Posthumous_child_sexual_abuse_allegations BTW, please note that its’ only ”alleged victims”. Journalists have uncovered several contradictions (and possible untruths) in the Leaving Neverland film (you can give this podcast a listen, then make up your own mind: https://www.michaeljacksoncaseforinnocence.com). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.96.7.161 (talk) 22:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Forbes 2024

Hi, Forbes just re-elected Michael Jackson as top-earning Dead Celebrity. Could someone with editing rights please update 2023 to 2024 in Forbes has consistently recognized Jackson as one of the top-earning dead celebrities since his death, and placed him at the top spot from 2013 to 2023. Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2024/10/29/the-highest-paid-dead-celebrities-of-2024/ Thank you! :-) 37.96.7.161 (talk) 22:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 December 2024

Net worth is not negative (unless since he’s dead , it could technically be 0

Also His kids names are wrong 2600:6C51:767F:9162:557B:5E56:8ECC:5314 (talk) 06:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 08:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 December 2024

I would like to edit Wikipedia articles to provide the correct information about things I know about. I would use it to add in info that is useful and not false info. TLS4200 (talk) 05:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

That ain't how edit requests work.

If you want all the details, you can read WP:ER, but to summarize, you have to specify what sentences you want changed and why, preferably with sources to back you up. ZionniThePeruser (talk) 08:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Return audio samples

I'd like to suggest the return of his 3 audio samples in the Artistry section, Vocal style subsection. I don't know if there was a consensus under this Talk before as I don't see it in the Archives as to why it was originally removed... Please direct me to that if there is. Anyway, it would be a great descriptive to show difference in his voice per genre as his voice engineer Bruce Swedien says they consummate different feelings depending on the song and how he approached them (Thriller - fear, Smooth Criminal - stealth, etc). Thanks! (Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Music samples - Contextual significance) Raolae (talk) 19:21, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Due to WP:NFCC requirements, non-free audio clips of songs are usually found in the article about the song itself; eg there is a clip in Thriller (song) but not here.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:35, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I understand that's the *usual consensus. But can you explain what makes it different that audio samples are used in Elvis Presley and Prince's pages ("a critical description" their style; *I see you edited Elvis' wikipedia page last month, but made no move to remove his samples) and not Michael Jackson's? I can argue that Michael Jackson's genre range is extremely important to his image as well as a historic feat. And including samples is an encyclopedic point. It is only one more item, and not a subvert use of such samples. Raolae (talk) 22:01, 26 December 2024 (UTC)